Tuesday, January 03, 2006


Orbusmax links to LGF, who takes issue with AP's use of the term "martyr" when referring to Palestinian suicide bombers:


It just doesn't fit LGF's definitions, which of course come straight from God, if not an even higher source...

I'm going to raise some blood pressure.

Merriam Webster defines "martyr:"

1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion.

2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle.

You don't have to agree - in fact, you can abhor - Palestinian tactics, but honesty compels a man to accept that they are a pretty good fit to definition #2 above, and that with overtones of #1.

Suicide troops in various guises are as old as war. Suicide troops have often been the weapon of last resort, as were the Kamikazi of WWII. Ordinary soldiers have many times turned the tide of battle with self-sacrifice.

We call them heroes...

Sure, that's in a "formal" battle, not that the dead are any less dead or the issue any less decided. This involves civillians, and "we" cannot accept civillians as targets, the dead of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden notwithstanding...

Rules that only apply when they fit your agenda are the rules of hypocrites...

Oh sure it's different... It always is...

Here's what is wrong with LGF: Their one-sided fanaticism blinds them to the ways the "Israel is always right" policies they support have helped to fuel Hamas and the intifida. It's only logical; they can't deal with the conflicts those realizations will raise between various aspects of their belief system.

The only way they can approach this issue is to demonize and dehumanize Palestinian patriots who fight the only way they can. If they accept for even an instant that these are real people driven to a desperation most of us can never grasp, then they have to accept their own role in the driving.

Yes, these young men and women are being manipulated by cynical old bastards who convince others to kill and die for them. But then, when and where is this one whit different from any king or President and their troops? The whole art of war revolves around the most illogical of acts: The act of dying for a cause. Convincing the young to so spend themselves is very difficult unless you first convince them either the cause is greater than life or life itself is so worthless losing it matters not.

Believing life matters not is a belief founded in utter desperation.

As long as "we" don't see the desperation, we can't deal with it proactively. All we can do is react to their attacks. That's STUPID. And so is insisting people with something to live for kill themselves and others out of hatred only.

This is an act of people with nothing to live for and only something to die for. As long as that circumstance continues, so will the attacks.

If you want to defy Hamas its cannon-fodder, give the cannon-fodder hope.

Last part first: You are correct that the most effective method to stop these homicide bombers is to give the people they come from hope. It is too bad that these people are punishing the wrong party - their problems are the fault of their "leaders", not the Israeli's.

First part Last: You, and AP, are way off base in calling these people Martyrs. What these people do is NOT martyrdom. Martyrdom implies self sacrifice or suffering on behalf of others. You can make a case that the US Military in Iraq has suffered a number of Martyrs.

What these people are doing are criminal acts. They are striking innocent targets, not "sacrificing" themselves.

They cannot even claim the cover of Military action, as they are not attacking the Military (unless they are intercepted and have to blow themselves up prematurely). These guys are no better than Tookie Williams, for all their high sounding principles.

The sad part is, most of them actually believe that they are going to be the favored of Allah, and have 72 virgins to attend them, for their "martyrdom" in murdering innocent civilians.

I wonder what Allah thinks when these "martyrs" kill fellow Muslims?

Moral relativism is all well and good in theory. In practice, it is a death sentance...
Going to have to disagree Possum. Palestinians are simply trying to kill Israeli's anyway possible. I don't believe there is any goal or principle other than to wipe Jews off the world map.

To them, killing Jews is noble.
First of all, no one has asked, or demanded that these fools renounce their religion. Second, their idiotic religion makes it clear that these are not acts of sacrifice but rather acts of virtue that are rewarded with an orgiastic after-life in virgin heaven.
I find it interesting that the desire to be Politically Correct overcomes the horror that is being done to innocent people. We are seeing a rise of antisemitism around the world. Blame all that is bad that is happening to you on the Jewish People. The UN is an antiSemitic organization. look at the Human Rights meetings over the past decade. Mostly anti Israel. Or Blame the US for having a death penalty. Yet Slavery is alive an well in North Africa and the Middle East in the Arab countries. Human rights violators are on the board protecting themselves from being investigated.
Think about the cause and effect. Defending Martyrs will only mean you support that activity. That is how I see it. Defend it as you will it is your right. But in the end if you support it that means the blood of the innocents children killed is on your hands.
I know you hate the military action but this problem goes back to the 1300's. America was not a country at that time. The rise of terrorism today is to support keeping Women as slaves with no rights. I guess you support that also. Look at the culture. Iraq was supporting terrorist attacks in Israel by giving thousands of dollars to the families that had a martyr. Real strong family ties get your son or daughter to blow your self up and your family will get thousands of dollars.
These same martyrs that claim it is the US or ISraels fault for there proverty never find out that billions of dollars of aid to help them are in Swiss bank accounts keeping their so called leaders in luxury. I guess you support that also.
There are a large number of factors that cause this issue. Yet you close your eyes to all but the smallest area. Where are the rights of the victims we need to demonize the actions of these terrorists not glorify them. I find it hard that you can not see this.
You call yourself a moderate?? You're kidding. You gotta be kidding.
Anyone who sets out to murder innocent children in icecream parlors and pizza shops is niether a martyr nor a patriot, just a murdering terrorist.
You want to stop these sub-humans?
Start publishing that all suicide terrorists who murder children will be gathered and buryied in pig skins after their body parts have been identified and seperated by their DNA.
That would be a waste of good pigskin, I say stick a shovel full of pig shit in their little pine boxes, that should do it.

Road kill, you are just a pc moonbat dumbshit in diguise, in no way moderate.
Scott & Danno, as I have noted, no room for a middle to exist. Thank you for proving my point.

Their fanatical desperation is a good match for your hate, and together, your respective groups can be counted on to perpetuate the cycle of war to the last man.

But that's OK. When you're gone, the rest of us will smile and carry on...
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